God and Science
Where does God fit in the science of today?
I’m sitting on the floor at the 2008 Experimental Biology meeting listening to the movie, Flock Of Dodos. The movie is the evolutionist take on the debate between evolutionists and intelligent design proponents. The movie is not readily available many places, so I am really enjoying this chance to see what the science side of the story is trying to say to the world.
The most interesting comment made in the movie so far is that much religions today view God as filling the gaps that science can’t explain. And, so as science fills more and more of those gaps, God must get smaller and smaller. This type of religious indoctrination inevitably forces our children to make one of two choices: 1) disbelieve science, or 2) have a crisis of faith that leads them to leave religion altogether. Is this the issue that we want to force?
Not that I want to tell anyone how to teach religion, but it just seems that science and religion don’t have to be so opposed. Stop teaching that God explains everything that we can’t explain with science, and maybe the whole intelligent design thing will go away.
That said, even though Flock of Dodos is a very well made film, the ID and Creationist groups seem to be doing a much better job of publicizing their ideas. Maybe the scientists should take a lesson…
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Evolution will continue to be taught in public schools and ID will not because evolution is based on verifiable evidence and ID is not, at least not as of today.
Evolution has won every court battle that I am aware of. ID and Creationism has lost every court battle that I am aware. I am very confident this trend will continue because in the court room it’s evidence that counts.
American is a technology driven society. Technology is science. People may say they believe in God but in their daily lives they turn to science.
Science still faces an uphill fight in the political arena. However, I believe even the most conservative Republican knows that it is technology (science) that gives America what ever competitive edge it has in the world.
To stay competitive it is technology our business leaders turn to not prayer.
Religion may still be winning the battle over people’s hearts. Science is winning the battle over people’s mind.
“This type of religious indoctrination inevitably forces our children to make one of two choices: 1) disbelieve science, or 2) have a crisis of faith that leads them to leave religion altogether.” What I don’t understand is why faith and science are so often viewed as mutually exclusive ideas. The existence of God doesn’t necessarily preclude the idea of evolution or vice versa. Personally, science can be such a mind blowing experience it AFFIRMS my belief in a higher power. It doesn’t discount it. And each new discovery reveals new intricacies and complexities that we still can only begin to understand.
Hey Kirsten, I think it’s great that your open minded and opened to the possibility that there could be an intelligence behind creation of the universe. Life is certainly a lot more interesting if you think your creation was not some cosmological freak accident and that you were planned from the beginning, because your value as a human being goes up exponentially as opposed to the other way around!
Cheers,
Kevin
PS: Check out the NASA Astronomy Picture of the Day for March 10. It makes a cool background!
Kevin, I am not sure where Kiki said she was open to believing in God. But, hey, I don’t to put words in anyone’s mouth. I am not sure how anyone could say that life is more interesting because God created us. If you say God created humans, then that’s it, shut the book, case closed. Yeah, real interesting!
Ed Dyer – hmmm – interesting that you talk about science, yet only state emotional opinions, without any proof, statistics or reports to back up your claims.
You made a lot of blanket claims, and generalities and that’s not what true science is all about.
btw: evolution is STILL a “theory”. NOT a fact.
You mention that “Science is winning the battle over people’s mind.” Where’s the proof in THAT theory/statement?! See below and you’ll see that it takes just as much “faith” to believe in evolution – and that it’s an emotional decision – rather than an intellectual one.
Tim Seley – I agree re:
“The existence of God doesn’t necessarily preclude the idea of evolution or vice versa. Personally, science can be such a mind blowing experience it AFFIRMS my belief in a higher power… each new discovery reveals new intricacies and complexities that we still can only begin to understand.”
This is exactly how I felt when I took biology and disected the brain. I thought – WOW – how can anyone NOT believe in intelligent design.
The day I put my faith in science without God in it – is the day that I am walking in the woods, and WHAM! right before my very eyes – I’ll see a Breitling watch just BANG into existence – and work in total perfection.
I agree with CoachDeb.
Further, it seems that some scientists (who are very intelligent people) choose to ignore basic principles of science when it doesn’t fit their worldview. Evolution is a fraud established by men who were spiritualists and deeply involved in witchcraft. Nevertheless, the scientific claims of evolution have no basis in real science. Rather, they are based on circular reasoning. Read Bones of Contention by Marvin L. Lubenow.
Also Dr. Kiki falsely implies that ID proponents and Creationists are not scientists. Dr. Kiki willingly ignores the plethora of scientists who dissent from Darwinism. Over 700 scientists have signed a document stating their skepticism of Darwin’s theory of evolution. http://dissentfromdarwin.org
Lastly, the government has no business funding education or scientific research. That should be left to the free market. Public education is used as a control mechanism to ensure people think the way the state wants them to. Abolish the public schools and universities. Those who want to teach and study evolution should do so at their own expense not the taxpayer’s.
Through out my education (especially science courses in college) I have found that the more the realities of the universe were revealed to me the greater my faith in God. I simply cannot believe that everything that science has uncovered about life on earth and the great expanse of space is mere chance. Mother Nature is simply not that good. Ever hear of the dodo bird? That was Ma Nature freelancing.
How do you explain to a caveman that there are things that exist that he cannot see, taste, smell, hear, or touch? How do you take a person capable of rational thought, who hunts to stay alive, to a concept like ethics? You personify the abstract. And, you use what you currently know of the world.
As scientists, it may seem to us that my initial question, above, is nonsense. But, think of a gas that has no smell. Explain to this caveman that there is something in the air. How can you make this person understand that something is indeed there?
Kiki’s series on cooking and science is a wonderful example of how some less obvious aspects of science can be explained through the example of cooking.
How do you explain to cavemen that getting along with each other, in society, is easier than going it alone? And, how do you build a society based on values that promote health, wealth, and happiness? We exchange ideas. Think in the abstract. Grasp implications and plan for the future.
The smarter we get about the world around us, the more we can make our world healthier and wealthier. But, nobody, here, will convince me that a pill will ever, truly, make me happier. Likewise, I’m not convinced that the current perception and utilization of religion will get us to happiness. (Some of the nastiest wars ever fought were over religion.) Organized religion may fill gaps, in a certain way. But, I prefer to believe that faith (more so than religion) is a simple, humble acknowledgment that there is more to learn and that these new discoveries will change our perception of things, that everything will be ok and that there is love in this universe. But these changes in perception can be disconcerting, for some, if they are not tied to some kind of meaning. And, when we get into this mushy world of the meaning of life, we embark on how society is constructed, from its foundation, upwards. Ethics, social values, and our most intimate fears, ambitions, etc. can be brought into question.
I certainly do not support the maintenance of ignorance in support of social order. Absolutely not! But a sensitivity to the impact of scientific methodologies, results and interpretations should be a key management tool in helping society and individuals be the best that they can be. Knowledge is power and with great power comes great responsibility.
We are past being cavemen and maybe a more up-to-date way of touching the spiritual aspects of human nature may make scientists less uncomfortable in interacting with those of us who are more tentative about change and new things.
This is why I would suggest that ‘religion’ as a term be replaced, in these discussions, with faith or spirituality. We can refer to God in the Christian sense but this approach may greatly limit the benefits of true self-examination, in light of new scientific discoveries.